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Statement of Ian Martin, Special Representative of the
United Nations Secretary-General

Monitoring of the management of arms and armies
Questions and Answers

Ian Martin on the present situation

Kathmandu 27 December 2007 (UNMIN)

Questions and Answers

Transcript

Surendra Phuyal, BBC Nepali Service:
What are your suggestions to the Government regarding the Maoist combatants who are going to be discharged, based on the UN's experience in other countries? And the 19,000-plus combatants who have been verified: should they be integrated in the army, or a separate paramilitary force, or police force? What are your specific suggestions?

Ian Martin:
First, so far as the discharge of those excluded by verifications is concerned, I think that it is very important that that is a well managed process. And that is exactly what I discussed with Chairman Prachanda and Minister Poudel, because I think that requires cooperation between the Maoist army, the Government and the United Nations. I don't just mean UNMIN, because in theory UNMIN's responsibility ends at the gate of the cantonments, so to speak, but there are UN agencies, UNICEF so far as minors are concerned, UNDP, who have made clear that they are willing to assist with the reintegration of those who are discharged. So I hope we are about to begin a kind of working level discussion of how exactly that is going to work involving the three of us, and of course, we will try to bring in to that discussion, particularly through UNDP, the UN's experience in reintegration elsewhere.
So far as those verified, who remain in the cantonments, it is not for the UN to so what their future should be. That has to be a discussion now to take place within the Special Committee. That's obviously a politically very controversial matter with very different views in different parts of the political spectrum, and in the two armies, and it has to be worked through there. What the UN can offer is, as your question implies, experience of what has been done in other parts of the world - not to suggest that there is a model that can be applied, but in so far as that help suggests to the parties what might be pursued here, they can draw on that experience. And we have made clear we are willing to make that kind of input if it is helpful to them once discussions are underway.

Mahesh Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
How do you assess the changing environment for free and fair election before 22 November and for the new poll date, Chaitra [ed: mid-April 2008]?

Ian Martin:
Well I think in some parts of the country, the security situation is even more difficult today than it was then. And we have always said that one of the key matters that has to be addressed for the Constituent Assembly election are local security conditions. The most important aspect of the agreement in that respect in my view, apart from the general commitment to give priority to law order, is the commitment to form local bodies by agreement. Because, as we have seen VDC secretaries saying, there is a need for the kind of political vacuum at local level to be filled. Public security is not just the matter of policing, it is also a matter of political agreement amongst local political forces to cooperate with the police in maintaining security. So, I think that is a very high priority and I hope that the parties are now able to move rapidly to go to the local level as they have committed themselves to do, not just to hold the seven joint meetings that they refer to the agreement but also to establish continuing local bodies to help manage the situation through to the election and beyond.

Mahesh Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
That means the situation has not changed?

Ian Martin:
Well, there certainly hasn't been any fundamental change in the situation since November. The security situation in some places, as is indicated by the resignations of VDC secretaries because of local conditions, has continued to deteriorate. And I think it is too soon to judge how the security arrangements now being made will affect the situation. But I stress again that I think it is very much a matter of local political management and I hope that the political parties will move forward on that now.

Gopal Sharma, Reuters:
What will happen to the 19,000-plus combatants? Will they be taken in the armed force of Government or will they find integration somewhere else? And, what happens to those children, those 2,000-plus who are under 18 years of age?

Ian Martin:
Well, again, let's keep clearly distinct those excluded by verification whose discharge should take place immediately and whose integration should happen now, and then the question of the future of those confirmed by verification. So far as the minors are concerned, as I indicated, UNICEF has been ready for some time with other organisations working with children to assist. That assistance obviously can include assisting people in returning to education if that's their wish, or vocational training or other kind of assistance to reintegrate into their communities.
Now so far as those confirmed by verification, their future is what the Special Committee now has to consider. And we know that the Maoists believe that some at least of them should be reintegrated into the security forces, but that is exactly what has to be worked out at the political level and all we have so far on the agreements is a mechanism, a process, to address it through the Special Committee. As I have said, the UN is not going to bring a prescription as to what should happen. The most we can offer is some indication of experience elsewhere.

Ayusha Niroula, Today's Youth Asia:
The 8,640 persons were disqualified. They did not appear for verification, and were disqualified. So UNMIN not take them into account whatsoever?

Ian Martin:
That is essentially right. These are people who presented themselves at the first stage of registration, from January - February 2007 onwards, but have not appeared at the second stage. And so they are no longer to be considered as part of the personnel of the Maoist army for the discussions of the future of the combatants. Now, certainly some of those we believe were people who are underage, and UNICEF is certainly concerned that they should also benefit from assistance with reintegration if they are in need of that in their communities. But they are not now part of the formal process of considering the future of the Maoist army combatants.

Ayusha Niroula, Today's Youth Asia:
But you are not sure that they are within the underage group?

Ian Martin:
No, because they haven't gone through the verification process, we have the details that were given at the first stage of registration, brief details, but that's all.

Ram Humagain, Gorkhapatra:
You have mentioned earlier that there should be a clear cut roadmap for the Constituent Assembly election. Has the recent 23-point agreement has given that kind of road-map for the Constituent Assembly election?

Ian Martin:
Yes, I think in the 23-point agreement there is a roadmap of issues that need to be addressed. Obviously there is a need for considerably more detail as to how some of these commitments are going to be taken forward. But indeed I think in the 23-point agreement one can find many of the key elements that are necessary to get to a credible Constituent Assembly election. But as my statement indicates, now they have got to be translated into reality, and the timelines in the 23point agreement are very strict. There is a lot that the agreement says which has to be done in one month, in terms of the setting up of the bodies that will then play an important role in the implementation of the peace process and progress towards conditions for the Constituent Assembly election.

Manesh Shrestha, CNN:
My question is regarding the numbers. You said that the corrected number of the personnel registered in the first phase is 31,318. Does that include the 932 you have mentioned in the next paragraph?

Ian Martin:
Yes, that's cumulative. The last line is the cumulative total.

Hari Sharan Lamichhane, Radio Nepal:
Mr. Martin, as you have mentioned that the traditionally marginalised groups have to be incorporated in the Constituent Assembly. It is not yet clear what sort of role UNMIN will play to bring those marginalised groups, especially the Terai issues, to be resolved before we go to the Constituent Assembly. And, if you look at the time, there is 3-plus months for the election. How optimistic are you this time?

Ian Martin:
My reference to dialogue is a reference to dialogue which I assume will take place between the Government and the seven parties and representatives of marginalised groups. I am not suggesting a dialogue facilitated by UNMIN there. I see a recognition, I read in the newspapers everyday now that that dialogue needs to take place. And indeed I think it needs to take place as a matter of urgency because the time period to the Constituent Assembly election is short and because there are announced intentions to resume agitation or start fresh agitation in parts of the country by marginalised groups. So, I hope that dialogue will move forward very soon.

Hari Sharan Lamichhane, Radio Nepal:
So what would be UNMIN's role?

Ian Martin:
All I am doing is encouraging it. UNMIN would not be directly involved unless we are asked to be involved.

Ujjwal Prajapati, Kantipur TV:
You have said that total verified number is 19,602 persons. Could you please elaborate on this? On the basis of ethnicity, have divided the number of verified persons?

Ian Martin:
No, we haven't. Of course, we do have information beyond this. The report we have presented to the two sides contains a breakdown by the seven principle divisions, centred on the different main cantonment sites, we have a gender breakdown, and certainly there is some information there that can be useful to the Special Committee in considering the future of those verified. And we also have agreement in principle to carry out a survey of those in the cantonments, a sample survey to collect additional information to help planning for reintegration. But there is more information that we can get from the data if the Special Committee feels that is useful to its deliberations.

Mahesh Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
Regarding the 8,641 who did not attend the second phase of verification. Do you have any idea, among them, how many have been involved in the YCL?

Ian Martin:
We don't know. I mean, frankly, we have a little information as to where those people are at the moment. Certainly some of the child protection agencies have come across some of them back in their own communities. It may indeed be that some are now active in the YCL in their own communities or elsewhere. But we simply don't have that information.

Manesh Shrestha, CNN:
We could work that out, but I can't give it to you off the top of my head. You are right, we began in June, we completed verification in Ilam, there was indeed then a gap. There were other gaps later on, there was a gap for Dashain as well, so it would be possible for us to work out for you for how many days the verification teams have actually been on the job, as it were, as well as the interval between the beginning of the process and the end. But I have to put my colleagues to work to get you that information.

Ghanashyam Ojha, The Kathmandu Post:
I see the figure, in the first phase there were 31,318 combatants registered and it seems 8,640 personnel didn't appear. And I have a question. These 8,640 personnel might have left the cantonment. All the cantonments are under UN supervision. Don't you think that UNMIN is responsible, because they left the cantonments? So anytime they can leave and anytime they can come: it shows that, it gives me that kind of impression? That's the first question.
Next is: is there any modality UNMIN has presented to the seven parties for release of those disqualified combatants and to integrate them into society?

Ian Martin:
On your last question, we haven't put forward a proposal, we are trying to engage the Maoists and the Government in a serious discussion on those arrangements. We certainly, UNMIN, in terms how it should happen at the cantonment end and UNICEF and UNDP, have views as to how this may be best managed, but that needs to be worked out in dialogue with the Maoists and the Government. So we will be doing that.

UNMIN was not mandated to supervise the cantonments. UNMIN was mandated to monitor the management of arms and armies. And it has always been clear that we had no capacity to engage in constant supervision of the personnel. We do engage in 24-hour surveillance of weapons storage, because they are gathered together in seven sites, Maoist cantonments, and one for the Nepal Army. The cantonments are not only the seven main sites, but 21 satellite sites as well, which our arms monitors visit periodically. And they attempt to monitor there the way in which the commanders are exercising their responsibility to keep control of the movements of their personnel, including records as to when people are authorised to go on leave and return. But we have never had either the mandate or the capacity to supervise the personnel.

Santosh Shah, Today's Youth Asia:
In that case, Mr. Martin, can we expect more PLA members to disappear in the next six months?

Ian Martin:
Well that will depend upon the extent to which their own commanders, of their own chain of command, ensure that they observe the agreement.

Santosh Shah, Today's Youth Asia:
The disappearance of the PLA is increasing and so is the activity of the YCL throughout the country, it is also increasing. It definitely shows a relation between the two. That does not help the peace process.

Ian Martin:
It is certainly true that the fundamental commitment was to keep the PLA out of the Constituent Assembly election. What I hope is that with the end of verification and with the clear identification of verified personnel whose future is now to be under proper discussion in the Special Committee, that the Maoist army will maintain full discipline over those in the cantonments, and will ensure that they leave the cantonments only in ways that are authorised by the agreement for leave. And certainly with reduction in numbers and also with the end of verification, which has taken lot of our resources of our arms monitors, I hope we can strengthen, too, our monitoring. But it will still only be strengthened monitoring. The ultimate responsibility for ensuring that those who should be in the cantonments remain in the cantonments, is that of the Maoist army and its chain of command.

Gopal Sharma, Reuters:
You mention that 4,008 are disqualified and almost 3,000 are minors. What is the criteria?

Ian Martin:
I am surprised that such a regular attendee of these press briefings should still be asking that question. We had to apply two criteria, one whether those involved were over eighteen or under eighteen on the 25th of May 2006, and secondly, whether they were recruited before or after that date. So the others are those who were assessed to have been over 18 but to have been recruited after the 25th of May 2006. Now, we also believe that a significant number of the minors were recruited after the 25 May 2006, but once someone was assessed to have been a minor it wasn't necessary to go on and apply the second criterion of date of recruitment as well.

Mahesh Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
4,008 is the total number of disqualified who appeared at the second stage of verification?

Ian Martin:
That's correct. That's correct.

Manesh Shrestha, CNN:
Will you by any chance be making public the questionnaire that was used in the first stage and second stage of verification?

Ian Martin:
I don't think there is any reason for us to do that. I mean the interview, I mean although there was indeed a sort of an agreed basis for the interview, that was not a constraint upon the verification teams and they went on asking as many questions, whatever questions as they judged necessary in the case of individual interviews. So this was not a sort of a strict questionnaire that contained it.

Manesh Shrestha, CNN:
Because if I remember clearly the reason for the gap between January/February, and the long gap between February in June was that the JMCC was still working out the details of what exactly needed to be asked in verification., wasn't it?

Ian Martin:
Yes but even then the discussion in the JMCC was about the general nature of the questioning, it was not the negotiation of every question, as it were.

Ram Humagain, Radio Nepal:
You might have given these figures to the Maoist leaders. What is their response to the numbers?

Ian Martin:
Well, I have only just in the last 24 hours forwarded the full final verification figures, although I have certainly indicated what the figures were as soon as we completed verification in my discussions with both sides. Our report, so far as I am aware, is being fully accepted. And indeed the verified figures were subject to being signed-off on by the Maoist commanders, so I don't expect any challenge to the outcome of our verification.

Mahesh Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
What do you suggest to the parties, quickly, which they should have to do to hold elections by Chaitra [ed: mid-April 2008]?

Ian Martin:
Well I think it's there in the 23-point agreement, so my only answer that really is, do indeed what they have now committed themselves again to do. And as I say, I put particular emphasis on what happens at the local level, as well as what happens at the national level. But I think the main message, apart from giving you the figures, the main message of my briefing this morning to leave you with, is that now it is all about implementation. There is agreement, but much of the agreement is a reiteration of previous agreements where there was not effective follow through. I think that has been recognised by the political parties in this agreement and therefore I very much hope that we are now going to see more effective implementation. And if the United Nations can assist in that then of course we want to do so.
Thank you.

Source: UNMIN , December 2007

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